Sunday, November 08, 2009

Religion and self deception

Self deception is insidious. It keeps us eating pizza when we can’t see our toes. It also keep the crucifix in Italian classrooms under the misguided believe that it is the universal sign for freedom.

Juan Antonio Martínez Camino, the spokesman for the bishops said that the crucifix stood for freedom and the court’s ruling was unjust and sad. He also added that the crucifix symbolized respect for a person’s dignity from his birth to death. He questioned that what would replace the crucifix in classrooms.

A crucifix is the last thing I think of when thinking about freedom.

The European Court of Human Rights Ruled:

"The presence of the crucifix could be ... disturbing for pupils who practiced other religions or were atheists, particularly if they belonged to religious minorities," the court said. "The compulsory display of a symbol of a given confession in premises used by the public authorities... restricted the right of parents to educate their children in conformity with their convictions,"

This seem reasonable to me. A crucifix is the symbol for the Catholic church. Non-Catholics, even non-catholic Christians, would agree. But 84% of Italians oppose the ruling.

Those in favor included many who are not practicing Catholics. Some 68 percent of those who said they never attended Mass said they still wanted the crucifixes to stay in schools.

It appears that Italians only buy into universal human rights as long as it does not infringe on their closely held beliefs. They are, in a word, hypocrites.

Martin Kugler, and expert in human rights, but only from a Christian perspective, offers 12 reasons why the cross is not a violation of freedom. I offer a few here:

"The right to religious freedom can only mean its exercise -- not the freedom from confrontation. The meaning of 'freedom of religion' has nothing to do with creating a society that is 'free from religion.'

"Forcibly removing the symbol of the cross is a violation on the same level as it would be to force atheists to mount this symbol.

"The blank white wall is also an ideological statement -- especially, if over the previous centuries, it had not been empty. A 'value-neutral' state is fiction, which is often used for propaganda purposes."

"Anti-religious fundamentalism makes itself an accomplice of religious fundamentalism when it provokes through intolerance," the expert observed.

And, "the majority of the affected population would like to retain the cross. It is also a problem of democratic politics, giving priority to individual interests so blatantly."

I’m not going to go down the list point-by-point to explain the whiney logical fallacies. Suffice it to say… what the hell? Freedom of religion simply means that we have the right to believe as we choose without the state endorsing a religion (or forcing one on us). Can they honesty say that putting a crucifix in front of an Atheist  or Muslim child while at school is neutral? No, it is state sponsored religion. How hard is that to see?

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Comments (15)

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I teach in a public school, and a lot of the hispanics are wearing rosaries around their necks. What do think of that.
1 reply · active 800 weeks ago
Personal expression of religious belief is fine with me.
Great point Mojoey. In reply to Guest, I am from Puerto Rico. Hispanic countries have lots and lots of saints and what not and most if not all wear some sort of crucifix, angel or saint on their necks. Again I agree with you Mojoey, your personal expression is your own. The problem comes in public places where people from many different beliefs come together.

Crucifixes in classrooms are ok as long as... you also include a star of david, muslim crescent moon and others. It is easier not to include any.
1 reply · active 800 weeks ago
Well in public schools there shoud not be a crucifix. I do know, because I went to catholic schools for 12 years, that every classroom had a crucifix in it. I feel that that is okay too. I do not think that Catholic schools will put up other symbols
Dromedary Hump,

Although I agree with what you have said I must disagree with the way it was said. The majority of people don't want to think for themselves or at all if it can be helped. Our task is not to get them to think for themselves but rather get them to trust the right people to think for them. I don't think you last post has helped.
1 reply · active 800 weeks ago
I have to disagree with you and the only way to really get things straightened out is for people to think for themselves and base that on good information. The first thing is to make people who have influence over others to be held more accountable for the truthfulness of their words.
I have to admit they are trying to twist the words so it sounds like the cross is something it isn't. With the way some judges will grab at these types of words wouldn't be surprised to see some changing their minds about it.
Have to say I agree with you on this one, so long as the schools don't turn around and hang a different religious symbol, thereby reversing the situation.

Personal expression is one thing; decorating a public space with a symbol of one religion, to the exclusion of all others, is taking things too far.

In my estimation, it goes back to that old phrase: Your right to extend your fist ends when you reach my nose. In other words, once your rights infringe on mine, there's a conflict of interest and the rights of the victim trump. I'd say this fits pretty well in that sort of a category, even if there is no physical victim. Having one's religious freedom trampled (and I do believe, in this instance, it is those in the religious minority who were having their rights trampled) still makes one a victim, whether there is physical evidence of same or not.

-a Free-Thinking Christian, just hoping to up the IQ level of the riff raff and show Dromedary Hump that "Free Thinking Christian" is not always an oxymoron......and not all Christians are morons.
1 reply · active 800 weeks ago
Hump can be over the top at times, but he has a good heart. Thanks for posting.
I would like to get this guy in the same room with Justice Scalia and see who comes out standing.

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