I worked from home today. It is something I do not do often enough. It gave me a opportunity to catch up on the minutia of my job. Plus I like the peace and quiet.
At 11:00 am this morning I heard pounding at my front door (my doorbell is disabled on purpose). The pounding was repeated several times and caused my dog to go into super yappy mode. Whoever was pounding had no intention of going away. I thought it might be my gardener. It’s Thursday, the gardener comes on Thursday… But no! It was door-to-door religious zealots hell-bent on getting me to church on Sunday.
There were three of them. Two women and one man. All were young and overly enthusiastic. My gardener told them I was home. They made a short pitch about their “authentic and honest” new church which was not like the 30 other churches within 2 miles of my home. The were non-denominational and aligned with the true love of Jesus. Plus their worship leader had a real cool band.
I’m polite until people piss me off. Since they were just selling their brand with smiles and faux love, I politely replied that we were an atheist household and would not be attending church on Easter or any other Sunday for that matter. This did not deter them. No, they actually said, “Our church welcomes Atheists,” and “We have a ministry dedicated to reaching out to Atheists, you would feel welcome among us!”
I stepped on my urge to confront the absurdity of their statements with snark. We talked amicably for a few minutes without coming to anything like an understanding. They thought I believed in God but had reasons to hate him or felt injured by religion and was unable to feel comfortable in “mainstream church”. I was at a loss for words for a moment, I was not getting through to them. but then I remembered the standard Christian hang-ups regarding sex. I asked if they believed in sex outside of marriage, they replied with the normal programmed response, “No!”
I saw an opportunity to use an analogy to make my point.
Going to church to be with Christians and learn about Jesus for an atheist like me is akin to Christians like you attending an orgy to be with swingers and learn about sex. You may think about it in the abstract occasionally, but if you are true to your values, you will never attend.
They left soon after. I think they were disappointed that I would not take their church info or agree to further discussions.
I thought about the encounter most of the afternoon. I need a better analogy. Does anyone have a suggestion?
Logging you in...
Jack 119p · 794 weeks ago
When I am clear-headed and unemotional, the best I can usually get out is something like, "I am an atheist, and I have realized that faith of any sort is dangerous. Believing in imaginary beings without evidence should be embarrassing and not something to celebrate."
The one analogy I have used before in situations like this is "I would no sooner attend your church than you would attend a Satanic ritual."
Hermes · 794 weeks ago
The first thing I keep in mind is that anyone coming to my door to sell something has;
1. Practiced their sales pitch many many times.
2. Has been rejected almost as many times as they have practiced their sales pitch.
3. Aren't going to listen to you.
Tip: If you want to get them off script, you need them to be emotional. One way to do this is to try getting them to do you a small favor. Ask them a math question, as it ties up part of their brain that normally keeps impulsive and emotional responses in check;
* [you open the door, act a little flustered as if you are searching for a pen and paper] "Oh, Hi. One second. Can you do me a favor? Remember this number for me. 024-521-3394. Got it? 024-521-3394." [then go get paper and a pen, and ask them to repeat the number back to you. the longer you take to get the paper and pen, the better.]
* Same deal, but ask them to perform simple math. You could get them to add two numbers and multiply or divide the result by another number. Complain that you're a little fuzzy headed at the moment and can't find your calculator, so you are much obliged at their kindness!
* * *
Here are a few ideas to get rid of them and have some entertainment at the same time. None of them are perfect.
1. Be Columbo. Be less clever than dumbly leading. Let them sink themselves. This one is general purpose. I can't find a perfect clip from the show, but here are two examples that should give you an idea if you haven't seen the show before;
Less like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leybGZjiqoE
More like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNf1xlBPxeI
The goal here is to keep them off script and thus flustered. The goal is not to actually engage them, but to get them to do all the work.
2. This one takes a little work. The less the better (they won't be listening much anyway). Go look up some very basic methods and ideas from Scientology or some other kooky religion.
When they come knocking on your door again, ask them if they have heard of Scientology and proselytize *them*, ignoring much of what they say. Hey, they'll want to stay on script and will ignore you so all is fair in this regard. At each moment, try and get them to engage with the ideas of Scientology.
The benefit is that if they come back and have counter apologetics for Scientology, you can calmly tell them you're not a Scientologist. Maybe you'll be a Hindu or a Jain or Juche(!!!) this time? :-)
Script for Juche (North Korean cult of personality state religion): "Did you know that there are more adherents to Juche than there are of Judaism? That when the Glorious Leader was born, the birds sang out his name in perfect Korean? ..." [It gets kookier.]
3. "Wow, are you guys actors? Is there a play in town?"
Show them mostly with your attitude that you really don't take their religion seriously by insisting that anyone who had such strange ideas would surely be placed in an insane asylum. As they are not in one, and you've not heard of any escapes on local news, they surely must be kidding! Ha ha ha! Gods? Really? Wow! Where's the camera?
4. If you're really cruel, and can keep up with philosophy, tell them that you would like them to address the Euthyphro dilemma. Have an answer for the "in his nature to be good" dodge. Chances are, they don't understand Euthyphro and if they have that specific dodge, they will cling to it tightly.
5. Tell them that you would be glad to talk with them, but that you can't right now. How about around Lunch time when you are at the office? Give them a valid name of an imam and an address for a mosque and time it for just before one of the mid-day prayers.
6. Step them through reasons why there is no such thing as an incorporeal soul. Here's a thread on it I started on WWGHA;
No souls, no way to get to an afterlife
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.ph...
* * *
Note that if they attempt to do Columbo on you, then tell them that if they don't know their religion/product, then you have no confidence that they know what they are talking about. So, why are they here?
If they attempt to dodge that by asking you questions, ask them if they know the answers for themselves.
Mojoey 107p · 794 weeks ago
No2Religion 85p · 794 weeks ago
david · 794 weeks ago
I am a youth pastor who stumbled across your blog somehow. I have been reading it for a few weeks and have enjoyed following your line of thought.
To answer your question, I just don't answer the door for religious door knockers. Long dialogues based on knocking on random doors gets nowhere so I don't answer. Plus answering makes my dogs go nuts which ends up annoying my wife.
The "orgy analogy" breaks down quickly. We would call being at an orgy a sin by itself. I don't think you would find it immoral to sit through a church service. (If so than its a perfect analogy) So a better analogy might be going to a wrestling match. You could say you are not going because you believe what is happening on stage is ultimately a show put on for x(fill in your belief as to why would have church services if God is not real). May not give your door knockers the hint that its time to go but its a fair analogy.
TexasHeather · 794 weeks ago
Does sound as though you handled it well, though. Kudos on your patience.
Mojoey 107p · 794 weeks ago
joe · 752 weeks ago