Thursday, May 18, 2006

The new Hitler Youth

I cannot help thinking that Generation Joshua is a front for the new Hitler Youth movement. Generation Joshua is a Christian youth organization dedicated to turning young Christian boys and girls into conservative Christian political activists. Their goal is simply stated. They intend to return America to her Judeo-Christian Foundations. Of course, this translates to working against reproductive rights, including contraception (if you can believe it). They are also dead set against gay marriage, well gay anything really. but it goes further, they would love to see morality laws enacted to criminalize consensual sexual behavior conducted outside of a traditional marriage, and some sexual activity conducted inside the marriage.

The New Hitler Youth focuses on home schooled evangelical and fundamentalist Christians. They offer online courses aimed at teaching the real intent of the Founding Fathers and the real meaning of the Constitution. The best and brightest can go on to Patrick Henry College and then on to internships in Congress and at the White House (7 already). To attend Patrick Henry College one must sign a pledge saying the devil is real and that they believe in the biblical version of a 6 day creation. It is all very scary, and very real. (more on PHC here)

The New Hitler Youth is run by Ned Ryun, son of Republican Congressman Jim Ryun. Congressman Ryun’s is the most conservative member of Congress and a fundamentalist Christian who is known to have spoken in tongues at a 1996 campaign rally.

People ask why I push back against Christian hegemony. This is why. This well-meaning group of pious children is a direct threat to my liberty and values. They intend to roll back the clock to "a better time". Right... a time when an atheist could be jailed or even worse. It pays to watch your enemies.

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Simon said...

Frickin scary. We have a growing right wing group in the UK. But at least its not connected to the church... yet.

brad said...

I am not so certain I disagree with Ned Ryun. I would have to look more into it. I certainly disagree with Patrick Henry's positions on the source of truth and I agree that Ned Ryun is connected at least indirectly through the Home-schoolers Legal Defense Association. But I have heard Ned Ryun and Jim Ryun a few times and they seem to think Christians should home school and not send their kids to state run schools. How could you disagree with this? This keeps people like us with our University of Kansas and our Stanford degrees out of your schools.

If on the other hand they want to force the state to teach their (our) worldview, then I agree with you. As for marriage, I would like to see their position. I couldn't find any anti-contraception stuff on GJ or WallBuilders.

brad said...

Oh and to call these people Hitler Youth is a bit crazy. Hitler believed in the Will to Power and that Christians were the next thing above cockroaches due to our Semetic view of morality. Hitler also believed that the more powerful races should enslave the lower races and he believed in moving History forward through war. I don't see any Hitler related teachings at GJ or WB either.

Mojoey said...

Brad - who said anything about keeping Christian kids out of public school? I said the Ryun's have an agenda that I find disturbing – they are using children to push it.

The Ryuns are players in the right to life movement. The RTLM is anti-contriception. It follows that organizations that the Ryuns managed would share those values.

Their position on marrige is the typical “protect traditional marrage” – which is homophobic. Ryuns are involved in this movement too btw.

Patrick Henry is using Generation Joshua as a feeder pool. The values and beliefs of the university are pushed down.

brad said...

I agree with all your items. All true. (except the anti-contraception. The view is anti-condom teaching in the public schools which is different) BUT that does not mean that their view of their role in government is to push anything that could violate your civil liberties. People like myself can hold certain views and that does not mean a slippery slope to somehow violating someones civil liberties (i.e Hitler). Method sir, you are experiencing intellectual scope creep.

Mojoey said...

Who cares what Hitler thought about Christians and why is it important to your point? Thinking that GJ teaches Nazi philosphy is well… stupid. The Ryun’s are using adolecents as a tool like Hitler did. THAT IS MY POINT. The term can be applied to any organized group of adolecents bent on molding society to their worldview as dictated by their leader(s). This goup is just that, marching in step to the tune of fundamentalism while dreaming about installing a religious theocracy in America. In this vison of the future, mojoey wears the Star of David on his breast and you hold a torch when my house is burnt to the ground. Of course, this does not scare you. You are a pastor after all; this is more like nirvana, no?

brad said...

On the contraception issue. I did a little study. BY FAR the biggest and most effective pro-life group is the National Right to Life. There mission statement says the following:
The Committee does not have a position on issues such as contraception, sex education, capital punishment, and national defense.

This is main stream pro-life. I look at many state RTL groups and found none that were anti-contraception. Please show me non-catholic examples that are against contraception in marriage.

Mojoey said...

Brad - people and organizations are judged on what they do, not on what they say. You of all people should fully understand that.

If your assertion is that the Right to Life movement is not against contraception, there is overwhelming evidence, including pro-life websites, that clearly show this is not the case. President Bush and his fundie friends are behind this effort. Like it our not - you are on their team.

The evidence for my position is overwhelming, while your position is based on faith and little else. What was it you said, “I can’t believe anybody would have this position, it is not part of the Christian mainstream.” George Bush supports this position with his actions – you cannot get more mainstream than that.

Here is a partial list of the 140 websites and articles I visited while forming my opinion. As usual, I do not do anything half-assed (except maybe spell check). I wonder, can you say the same?

Now go to town – show me that the current fundamentalist Christian cabal running Washington is not pushing an anti-contraception agenda. You will not be able to.

The Connection between Contraception and Abortion
Focus on the Family With Dr. James Dobson
Pro-abstinence politics meddles with a CDC conference. By Amanda Schaffer
Cristina Page | The War on Sex
Anti-Contraception Campaign Decries Actions of Illinois Governor
Democratic Wings: The right for women to obtain birth control is at stake with the departure of Sandra Day O'Connor from the Supreme Court
AlterNet: The Christian Taliban
President Bush Sends His Proposed FY 2002 Budget to Congress - Druggists refuse to give out pill
Christian Soldiers on the March
The Truth About George W. Bush - Women's Rights
Family Planning Programs And 'Charitable Choice': Are They Compatible? Clear thinking about crucial issues.
Human Life International - Home
American Life League - your pro-life information source

rg said...


Wow. This is a disgusting and insulting post and I expect better. It is also extraordinarily intellectually lazy. I looked through the comments for clarfication and found the very odd quote "The Ryun’s are using adolecents as a tool like Hitler did. THAT IS MY POINT." That is simply an insufficient similarity to make that comparison. There are thousands (if not millions) of youth organizations and youth movements throughout the world and throughout history. For you to use as the basis of illustration and comparison the youth movement of such a horrific regime illustrates a lack of understanding of the enormity and seriousness of your historical comparison. Such a willingness to use such serious material to work yourself into an anti Christian frenzy suggests something nearing mental instability.

I am stunned.

Mojoey said...

On the other hand, your standard response is “I must be crazy” great. Thanks.

Looking at the keywords in your post:

Intellectually lazy
Insufficient similarity
Anti-Christian frenzy
Mental instability

So the question is really “did I over sell my point?” – yes, without at doubt. You think I don’t now this?

Did I compare the Ryun’s to Hitler on purpose – yes? The Ryun’s are dangerous. They represent a real potential threat to people like me. I could have said something like “the Ryun’s are doing some bad”. Oh, yes – that would have been a better approach. Oops forgot the *sarc* tags.

Do I recognize the difference between Hitler and fundies? – yes. – Thanks for the personal insult btw. It is a great thing to wake up to on a Sunday morning. I am feeling particularly lazy and mentally unstable this morning.

Is what the Ryun’s are doing potentially dangerous? Yes – is it that fact that they are working with home schooling kids that hits a nerve with you? Or, do you just not recognize that the fundie agenda they are pushing can result in a religious theocracy?

Am I anti-Christian? No, not I am not anti-Christian at all really. I am anti fundie. But, you know this. So why the personal attack? Is it Because I compare a home school movement to the Hitler youth? Yes! I am a lazy crazy nut because I see similarities between how Hitler manipulated the youth of Germany and how the Ryun’s and other fundies are manipulating the youth of America. You are so right! There is NO comparison. What was I thinking? Oh my god, I’ve been so wrong. Thank you RG, thank you. I am saved! I’ll just forget all about the Ryuns and Generation Joshua. They pose no danger at all. None – it is completely innocent. But then again – innocent is how the Hitler Youth started in the early 30’s. It was all peace love and exercise. Until Hitler started… oh you know the story. Wait… if you know how the Hilter youth started and you compare them to Generation Joshua there ARE similarities. It is only what the HY became that you object to. They like GJ started as an innocent youth organization with an agenda. What is Generation Joshua going to become? Are they likely to become mass murders? No, it is not likely. However, they are likely to attack the civil liberties and rights that I hold dear? They already have.

Ass hat. I expect better from my friends

rg said...

I don't care how "Dangerous" you think the Ryuns are, to compare what they do to the Hitler Youth is out of bounds. For someone with a deep sense of history, such as yourself, I'd think you'd get that. When I say it is:
Insulting" I am thinking of this:

That is the reason for my anger and disgust. I don't really care what you say about the Ryuns, you can argue that with Brad. But when you make this comparison you diminish the evil that Hitler and his reich was. And when you diminish that evil you diminish the service of the boys lying under the crosses in Normandy. And that really pisses me off.

I don't really understand your objection to the term "insufficient similarity" so I can't comment on that one.

The laziness accusation comes from the rather vague math of Hitler Youth == group of kids being manipulated, Generation Joshua == group of kids being manipulate ergo Generation Joshua == Hitler Youth.

But Joe, Come the Fuck On! I know you have an appreciation of how awful World War 2 was! And how evil Hitler and his minions were. You are likening your situation to that of the Jews in Europe, 6 Million of which were killed.

I apologize for saying that you were mentally unstable. That was cheap and out of bounds, written in anger. I am sorry I wrote that. I very much acted like an asshat.

rg said...

That URL got cut off, use this;

rg said...

Mojoey said...

ok, ok.

I'm way off the reservation with the Hitler thing. There is no real comparison. Sorry bro.

These guys got under my skin.

Anonymous said...

For the record, Generation Joshua is against abortion, but takes no position on contraception. Anti-contraception is more of a Roman Catholic position. This is an evangelical Christian organization, which is different.

Magiaeon said...

I am in complete agreement with you, mojoey. In fact, the reason I found your blog in the first place is because after reading about Generation Joshua in Michelle Goldberg's "Kingdom Coming," I did a Google search for the terms "Generation Joshua" and "Hitler Youth." You're not the only one to see this connection, and yes, it is scary. I will stay tuned...

Amaselo Trinacria said...

Your view of christians is somewhat distorted. I question how you have been tramped by the christian movement? I consider myself a christian and there are people in my congregation that do speak in tongues, so what? All the apostles spoke in tongues at one time, they didn't threaten anyone two thousand years ago and christians don't threaten anyone today either. You seem to have a phobia that is rooted in your atheist views. We as christians do not go around in any way espousing limitations to your beliefs. You have the God given right to "Free Will".

I do have to disagree with you on the Hitler Youth Movement theory. Hitler, while in power, managed to remove the rights of parents and had children of members of the nazi party, as well as most children attending public schools, forcibly enroll in the movement. They were brainwashed into the philosophy and encouraged the youth to rat out on their parents if they disagreed with the nazi theology.

Therefore, my friends, it's not the christians that you should fear, but government's intrusion into your life. Be very well aware of what big brother is legislating (all those bills that are rushed through, hidden on page 456, mingled with some convoluted legal wording.)

Attacking christians is only the beginning, just as it was in Germany, under Hitler; or under Roman rule, back two millennias.

Christianity endures, no matter how it is oppressed. The USSR and the communist block countries tried it for many years and the results are? The USSR and the blocks are history, Christianity's flourishing back in all those countries, more than ever. Roman empire? Only ruins are left.

I feel pity for you and pray for your salvation, you certainly need it.